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Frolm Moral Decisions

Here’s a look at which ethical or moral decisions the frolm would consider sacred and which are secular (civic or tribal), along with the cultural reasons behind those divides

Sacred Duties (Morals Governed by the Frolm

These are spiritual obligations rather than just a simple set of rules. Disobeying them isn’t just unethical. It is believed that breaking them can anger spirits, upset natural balance, or even curse one’s lineage.

1. Interfering with the Dead or Spirit Echoes

This is sacred because the dead are seen to still have an influence on the world through “spiritwater,” which is a metaphysical current of memory. A few examples would be disturbing burial sites, spreading falsehoods about the dead, stealing heirlooms or bones, or the misuse of ancestral names.

2.  Polluting the Sacred Waters or Swamps

According to frolm belief, water is a spiritual conduit. Both polluting and redirecting rivers without consultation through ritual are seen as an offense to the land’s soul. Relieving oneself or bathing in the sacred springs may result in a public cleansing ritual or even exile.

3. Dishonoring Such Things as Dream Visions or Prophecies

In frolm culture, dreams are viewed as communications from the marsh spirits or ancestors. Misusing, faking, or ignoring them is heresy. One of the worst spiritual crimes among the frolm is to lie about a dream for the sake of power.

4. Forbidden Croaks (Chants) and Taboo Magic

There are songs or chants (called “Croaks of Binding” or “Croaks of Drowning”) that are only to be used for high shamans or specific times. When someone uses these without authorization, not only is what they have done illegal, but it is thought to attract dark spirits or cause spiritual illness.

5. Violation of Ceremonial Obligations and Ritual Offerings

Missing ritual contributions (like not bringing frog-lilies during the Rain Chorus) isn’t only rude, but it disrupts the spirit covenant. Shamans and Elders may interpret sickness or crop failure as a punishment for these things.

6. Breaking Marriage Rites or Kin-Vows Without Spiritual Release

When it comes to frolm relationships, they are often spirit-bound through water or song rituals. Ending a union without “unbinding” can invite bad luck of infertility.

7. Breaking Kin-Vows or Marriage Rites Without Spiritual Release(h3)

Frolm relationships are often spirit-bound through song or water rituals. Ending a union without “unbinding” invites bad luck or infertility. Children who were born from unbound partnerships may be viewed as “mireborn” and must go through a cleansing process.

Moral Decisions that are Considered Secular or Tribal (Community or Practical Matters.

These are usually seen as important but not necessarily sacred. The tribal councils, elder gatherings, or village agreements usually handle them. If someone violated them, it may cause fines, exile, or labor obligations, but there aren’t spiritual punishment for these things.

1. When There is Land and Resource Disputes Between Familys

While the land is highly respected, there may be disputes over territory or resource sharing which are handled through negotiations and not religion.
Elders can invoke precedent, but they can’t invoke prophecy to help resolve these disputes.

2. Theft of Non-Sacred Objects

Things like stealing food, decorations, tools and so on is considered a civic crime, not a religious crime—with the exception of the item is a relic or spiritually bound.

Punishments for this include restitution, public shame, or manual labor.

3. Personal Insults or Fights Outside Ritual Grounds(H3)

Such things as name-calling, drunken brawls, and minor duels are viewed as “muck behavior,” rather than spiritual offenses.
Those who repeatedly offend this law might be ridiculed or mocked through song, and there is rarely a spiritual consequence.

4. Misuse of Titles or Clan Colors(H3)

While it isn’t considered spiritually wrong, pretending to be a member of another family or warrior caste besides your own is a serious offense since it is about honor and political order.

This could lead to exile or being challenged in the “mud court” which is a form of public confrontation.

5. Refusal to Participate in Community Work(H3)

When it comes to not helping with wall building, gathering food, or croak festivals, it may be considered disrespectful and lazy, but it isn’t blasphemous.

Moral Gray Areas (Handled by Both Law and Religion)

There are some decisions that are culturally blend and are considered both ritually and socially significant.

1. Killing in Rage vs. Killing in Defense

If one frolm kills another in self-defense or when a duel is sanctioned, it is ceremonially forgiven.

However, killing out of passion or for gain with no ritual justification, will bring spiritual decay and may even lead to haunting or madness.

2. Breaking an Oath Made in Chorus (h3)

Oaths that are sung during a public chorus are considered spiritually binding. If one breaks them, they violate both social contract and spiritual trust.
This often requires a public apology, cleansing, and penance through something such as a sacred task.

Magic Views Among the Frolm

Some of the frolm know how to use magic. They usually learn either from the School of Magdad or through a mentor/apprentice relationship. Here are some of the views of magic when it comes to the frolm:

1. The Way of the Waterspirit

–The oldest and most popular belief —

View of Magic: Necessary, natural, and sacred.

Clerics & Shamans: These frolm must be good at water-based or dream-linked magic.

Philosophy: Magic is considered to be a whisper from the marsh and an extension of natural rhythms.

Why it requires magic: Priests are usually viewed as intercessors between the waking and the spirit world. They need magic, or they are spiritually blind. Dreamwalking, weather-reading, and healing are all expected magical skills.

2. The Ember Brethren (a fire cult)

—considered a heretical sect dwelling in the dry areas—

View of magic: It’s generally not trusted unless it is fire-aligned or destructive.

Cleric: They use highly ritualized and controlled forms of magic.

Philosophy: They believe that magic is a flame that cleanses, and it is only to be used to purge weakness, decay, or corruption. Intuitive or emotional magic is viewed as being dangerous.

Why they restrict magic: Fire magic is viewed as a holy fire, but other types of magic such as dreams, water, and animal affinity are labeled as “mire-spawned trickery.” Their priests are required to master fire rites while rejecting all else

🌫 3. The Silent Fog

— A Monastic Order of Isolationist Mystics —

View of Magic: In daily life, it is forbidden, but is only allowed in extreme ritual.

Clerics: They are not allowed to use magic directly.

Philosophy: Magic can attract both benevolent and malevolent spirits. The Silent Fog shows that magic corrupts purity, and this draws too much attention from what lies beyond.

Why it’s forbidden: Monks who perform this kind of magic believe that the more you use magic, the thinner your soul’s shield will become. This will make you vulnerable to being possessed by a spirit. They generally rely on stillness, prayer, and symbolic gestures.

🌀 4. The Chorus of Echoes

— A Mystical Tradition Focused on Sound, Memory, and the Past —

View of Magic: This view of magic believes that it is essential, but it must be channeled through ritual or song.

Clerics: These clerics must be trained in “Croakcasting,” which is an art of producing harmonics that have an influence on magic.

Philosophy: They believe that magic without structure is dangerous. Whenever someone casts a spell, it must be done through approved sacred songs.

Why it’s structured: They view reality as being held together by echoes; therefore, unstructured magic breaks harmony. Rogue casters are generally punished for using it off-key rather than being punished for using magic.

5. The Order of the Still Pool (Secular/Scientific Sect)

— A Rationalist Reaction Against Magical Dogma —

View of Magic: They see magic as being real but not necessarily sacred. It is merely a biological or elemental force.

Clerics: They usually avoid religious titles, but practitioners are called Observers.

Philosophy: Magic is seen as a neutral thing like heat or gravity. Using it doesn’t give someone spiritual favor or disfavor.

Why it’s neutral: Frolm who subscribe to this point of view believe that spirits are natural forces that are misunderstood. Magic is seen as something to study rather than worship. They seek to demystify it and often clash with the shamanic traditions.

🌘 6. The Croak of the Void

— A Forbidden Cult Among Frolm Exiles —

View of Magic: It is forbidden unless it channels the “Echo of the First Drown,” which is a primal dark spirit.

Clerics: They are required to be powerful void-mages.

Philosophy: They see magic as power, and that any restriction on it is controlled by the weak. They embrace such things as the shadow, decay, and the ending of cycles.

Why it’s Corrupted: During the First Age, this cult was outlawed by the Croakbind Council. It was because they caused a magical flood that destroyed three villages. The Silent Reed hunts them.

See Also:

Frolm (Species)

Frolm Holidays and Ceremonies

The 13 Sacred Laws of the Frolm

Frolm: Lesser Laws

Flowers of the Great Frolm Forest

Frolm Food

Frolm Deities

Heroes Of The Frolm

Frolm Jobs and Occupations

Frolm Language: Speech Variation in Frolm Society

Courtesy and Hospitality in Frolm Society

Frolm greet each other by saying “may the water flow evenly with you,” which is a reference to their moist environment. It’s usually considered a rude gesture if a frolm points both of their palms at a person. It is equivalent to flipping someone off in our culture. It is rude to not give someone a cup of water if they ask for it.

Accepting a Host’s Offer

The frolm value things like reciprocity and gratitude. It is customary to respond to an offer by touching the tips of one’s fingers to one’s lips and then extending the hand outward—the gesture means “I receive with honor.”
When accepting food or drink, a guest must always take the first sip or bite before speaking, as saying anything before partaking is viewed as an insult to the host’s preparation.

If the host offers water infused with medicinal plants, it is considered a high honor and should be accepted even if one doesn’t need it. Refusing it is considered disrespectful to the host’s knowledge of the forest’s healing properties

Things Considered Rude to Accept

More than one meal in a single visit unless it is explicitly offered multiple times (food is seen as a communal resource). When a guest overeats without contributing, it is seen as having a “hollow belly spirit,” which means greed.

A host’s personal sleeping mat—even if offered- is considered a sacred space, and taking it shows you think yourself as being better than the host.
A blade carved from the bone of a revered ancestor. These items are only meant to be passed within the family itself, and accepting one as an outsider implies that you intend to claim their legacy

Things that are Considered Rude to Turn Down

A dis of swamp fruits or mushrooms, especially if they are brightly colored. These are often collected with a lot of effort, and refusing them gives the impression of distrust in the host’s foraging skills

A chance to partake in an evening chorus (A rhythmic croaking and chanting ritual usually done before the coming of night). Refusing this is as bad as refusing to share your “soul sound” with the tribe.

A token of kinship, such as a woven vine bracelet or a painted stone. To refuse these gifts is seen as rejecting friendship.

Things it is Rude to Ask For

It is rude to ask for a host’s secret hunting or foraging spots. Knowledge of where to find food is generally passed down through families, and asking directly is seen as attempting to take shortcuts instead of earning it.

Pure rainwater. The frolm believe that water collected naturally in sacred pools is viewed as a gift from the ancestors, and asking for it outright implies you think you are more deserving than others.

Things It Is Rude Not to Ask For

Permission to enter another Frolm’s home. Even if the door is open, stepping inside uninvited is considered an act of claiming the space as your own.
A second helping when it comes to specially prepared dishes. If a meal is cooked with rare ingredients, the cook expects guests to request more in order to show appreciation. When a frolm doesn’t ask for more, it is taken as a sign the meal was unworthy.

A story from the elders. It is expected that younger frolm or even outsiders will ask elders to share some wisdom from their experiences. If this is not done, it suggests that you do not respect their knowledge.

Other Niceties and stuff

When having a random visitor, frolm make sure they have water and maple-syrup-covered grasshoppers on hand.

Frolm typically greet one another by putting their arms to the side and giving a slight bow. They are a friendly race, and people outside the frolm race know that the slight bow is a sign of respect.

They often use the word “welcome” when someone enters their habitat. The bow began in the First Age before the Great Battle of the First Age, so it has been passed on for thousands of years. They invented it for themselves, but it has caught on with species outside of the frolm, where some people use it to show respect when greeting someone.

When it comes to leaders, the ones who are under the leader give a full bow, while most of the time it is only a half bow among their peers.

To show disrespect, a frolm will stick out its tongue, which is long like a frog’s. They will point it directly at the one they are trying to insult. Fights sometimes break out when this sign is given to another frolm or even those outside of the frolm race.

When greeting each other, frolm will usually say “my name is ___, and may peace fill your land.” They usually only use this greeting among themselves, but once in a while they will use it for another species if the person is respected among other frolm.

The elder frolm in the various territories throughout the Great Frolm Forest often wear a hood to show their authority and to let frolm know whom to go to if they have any complaints or requests.

Frolm usually greet each other on a first-name basis, and their names are first given at birth, but can change if they grow into a personality that the word doesn’t fit.

Frolm will often wave if they are greeting someone from a distance. As for greeting someone they already know, they leave out the “My name is __” part, but will call the person by name and say “May peace fill your land.”

Frolm generally don’t talk with their hands because they believe this interferes with communication and is nothing but a distraction to what is really being said. They are one of the few races that do this. It’s not considered vulgar, but it can annoy the person they are talking to.

Frolm show equal respect to others but might bow a little lower when greeting a leader. They generally have a lot of respect for their leaders and are not as rebellious as humans. This helps with their strength because they aren’t divided among themselves.

Frolm are open about talking about things such as religion and politics. Most of them are on the same page so these discussions don’t generally turn into arguments. Frolm wonder why humans are so divided on this issue.

Also See:

Frolm (Species)

Frolm Holidays and Ceremonies

The 13 Sacred Laws of the Frolm

Frolm: Lesser Laws

Flowers of the Great Frolm Forest

Frolm Food

Dieties of the Frolm

Frolm Heroes

Frolm Jobs and Occupations

Frolm Language: Speech Variation in Frolm Society

Frolm have their own language which they use with each other, but they often speak common tongue. They are required to learn the frolm language for times of combat when they have to communicate without being intercepted. One cannot be a warrior if he or she doesn’t know the frolm language

By Social Class

Frolm may have warriors, shamans, chiefs, hunters, artisans, foragers, and common gatherers, each with a unique speech distinction.

High-born Leaders (Chiefs, shamans and elders):

These frolm may speak in a measured, melodic tone which mimics the rhythm of the rainfall or the swamp pulsating. They make use of long, flowing sentences, and instead of speaking in direct orders, they prefer metaphors (e.g., “The river does not command the fish, but it leads them with its current”). These frolm may refer to themselves using third person when making decrees (e.g., This one has seen the planets align, and the time for harvest is near”). They often have exclusive ceremonial words not used in regular speech (e.g., “Thro’ku” meaning “wisdom is granted by the mist spirits”).

Warriors and Hunters

They often speak in short, clipped phrases and prefer action-driven language. They often omit pronouns and articles (e.g., “Hunt begins. Warmth comes.” Instead of using “The hunt is beginning” and  “The warmth is coming.”). They also use onomatopoeic battle slang such as “Grok” (which means to “strike fast”) or “Frik-frik (Which means “circle the enemy”). They are prone to imitating animal sounds for tactical communication.

Foragers and Gatherers

These frolm often use descriptive language that relates to various things like plants, fungi, and weather patterns. (e.g., “That idea is like a rotting stump, it will quickly crumble). They have a distinct seasonal vocabulary, (e.g., like referring to time in terms of growth cycles (“When the light-colored fungi rise, we shall meet again”)).

Artisans and Traders

These frolm tend to borrow words from various tribes due to their frequent interactions. They tend to speak faster than most frolm, using abbreviations and contractions (e.g., “Zlo’grok” instead of “A fine piece of stonework”). They have a unique slang for quality such as “Slime-rich” which means high-value, and “Dull reed” which means that something is worthless.

By Occupation

Sometimes, frolm who do different jobs develop unique speech quirks:

Frog Tamers (Those who work with giant amphibians for transport & labor)

These frolm use things such as clicking and low hums instead of words when giving orders. They often refer to time based on frog behavior (e.g., “The Long Croak is near” means it is dawn). They have unique names for different frog sounds, such as “Brum-brum” (angry Croak, and “Whir’leek” which is a mating call.

Waterway Navigators & Fisherfolk

These frolm have a fluid, wavy cadence, speaking as if their words are drifting like water. They may use many words for different types of ripples (e.g., “silent drift” for smooth waters, or “whispering pull” for a slow current). These fr have sacred words for deep water animals they do not name directly. They refer to them as “shadow swimmers” or “those who wait below.”

Scouts and Runners

These frolm prefer sharp, staccato phrasing for efficiency. They often use coded phrases to give information quickly, such as “Moss-rise” (safe path) and “Sun-fade” (hostile territory).

By Region

Various wetlands, river systems, and swamp forests create distinct dialects.

Deep Swamp Tribes

These frolm speak in drawled, slow tones which mimic the eerie stillness of their environment. They tend to use more whistles and guttural sounds, as deeper swamp frolm have larger vocal sacs. They usually have longer words for things that are important to them such as “Swamp” being Glo’raak-thumm,” which means “land that breathes”).

Riverbank Frolm

These frolm often have a lighter, more nasal accent that seem to mimic the quick ripple of water. They borrow several words from other species such as travelers, merchants, and entertainers. In fact, they are known for their rhyming speech in which they speak in couplets. (example: “Storm ahead, winds have spread” or “Gather now, before the bough).

Hill Marsh Frolm

These frolm have a more clipped and breathy pronunciation since their terrain is generally more open. They use hand gestures and body language alongside speech more frequently than other groups. Some of their idioms are based on elevation (example: “High reed, far seed” which means that there are long-term benefits that require patients.

By Race (Subspecies of Frolm)

There are various physical features that affect the way they speak

Tree-Frolm (Arboreal, Smaller, Agile, Webbed Fingers)

These frolm generally speak in chirps and trills. In fact, their voices are naturally higher-pitched than other frolm. They tend to interrupt each other in their conversations, as their speech is quick and dynamic. They have many metaphors that are connected with hair such as “Leaf-born” (which means carefree) and “Drift-broken” (which means lost).

Marsh Frolm (Stockier, Bulkier, More Amphibian Than Humanoid)

Marsh frolm generally speak in slow, deep vibrations, which sometimes uses subsonic hums to communicate over long distances. There are many pauses in their speech as they consider each word carefully. They use water-themed proverbs such as “Still water drowns the deepest” (which means, beware the quiet ones.

Tidewalkers (Frolm Who Live on the Ocean’s Edge, Saltwater Amphibians)

These frolm generally speak in short bursts, almost mimicking the tides.
They have distinct terms for where the moon is at regardless of which moon, e.g., “Hollow-eye” for the new moon and “Flood’s Echo” for the full moon
They also borrow clicking sounds from crustaceans which makes their dialect unique.

See Also:

Frolm (Species)

Frolm Holidays and Ceremonies

The 13 Sacred Laws of the Frolm

Frolm: Lesser Laws

Flowers of the Great Frolm Forest

Frolm Deities

Heroes of the Frolm

Frolm Jobs and Occupations

Frolm Jobs and Occupations

Frolm are generally given jobs that they have a talent for. There are various jobs among the frolm that keep their society going. To become a warrior is often the most sought-after position, and a frolm has to be 30 years old to go on a Warrior’s quest to prove their worthiness. However, warriors aren’t always at war, and many fulfill other duties in times of peace. Here are some of the jobs that they can do:

Bogkeepers – These frolm protect the water sources and make sure that ponds, streams, and sacred pools stay clean and undisturbed. They may sometimes clean the water with nets to help the water remain fresh.

Mud Architects – Most frolm homes are made from the use of mud, so mud architects are set to build homes and other important places with mud, woven reeds, and bioluminescent fungi. They tend to make very sturdy and long-lasting homes.

Tree Hollow Carvers – They help to shape living trees into storage spaces or ceremonial sites. They are experts at doing this so they don’t harm the trees. This is usually done with larger trees because they supply more room.

Glowmoss Tenders – These are frolm who cultivate luminescent moss that provides natural lighting. This natural lighting is usually put on village paths and homes. It is very decorative in appearance.

Marsh Navigators – These are frolm experts who chart the safest water routes through the forest’s twisting rivers and floating islands. This helps people who are traveling through the forest. These frolm often put up symbols signifying the safest paths.

Defenders & Warriors

Swamp Guardians – These are trained fighters that protect the jungle. They also protect their communities from predators, cave trolls, and those who might attack the Great Frolm Forest.

Leapblades – These are elite warriors, and they use their powerful legs to launch themselves at enemies, with sharp blades or weapons. A frolm must be able to jump at least 25 feet in the air in order to become a Leapblade.

Mist Trackers – These are frolm who hunt enemies by trailing them through the thickest of fogs. Their eyes are tested before they become one of these, and they are generally young frolm because young frolm have sharper sight.

Shadow-Fins – These frolm often remain underwater and are warriors that guard the sacred pools and river passages. They are good at silently swimming and stealth attacking.

Venom Harvesters – This force of the frolm army is specialized in gathering dangerous venom from animals and plants and using it to put on their weapons. Some harvesters focus on finding venoms that can heal frolm.

Nature-Based Roles

Raincallers – These are shaman-like frolm that perform ritual chants and dances that cause it to rain.

Frogspawn Caretakers – These are protectors of young frolm eggs and tadpoles. They ensure their survival in the hatchery pools.

Moss Weavers – These are frolm that focus on growing and weaving moss-based fabrics to be used for clothing, bedding, and insulation.

Root Healers – These are herbalists who use such things as jungle plants, fungi, and minerals to create healing pastes and tonics.

Mist Farmers – These frolm grow fog-dependent plants and bioluminescent crops. They often tend to floating gardens on ponds.

Cultural & Spiritual Occupations

Croak Singers – These frolm perform and use resonating vocal harmonies to tell stories, teach history, and soothe those in ill health.

Echo Dancers – These are acrobatic warriors who leap and tumble through the air. This mimics the movements of forest creatures. They can sometimes access frolm prey that can otherwise be difficult to catch.

Spiritwalkers – These frolm are priests and/or mystics who act as mediators between the frolm and the spirits of water, jungle, and ancestors. They sometimes mediate between frolm clans when there is a serious disagreement.

Water Oracle – This is a rare frolm that claims to see visions in the ripples of sacred pools and helps those in leadership positions. There are some frolm who pretend to see these visions, which can cause a disruption in the clan. If it is found out that the frolm is pretending to see a vision, it could lead to that frolm being exiled.

Ritual Painters – These are artists who tattoo or paint symbols on warriors who are preparing for battle or for coming of age events.

Food & Trade

Glowfruit Foragers – These are frolm that gather bioluminescent fruit that only grows under certain moons and moon phases.

Insect Farmers – These are breeders of crickets, glowworms, and beetles. This helps give the frolm a protein-rich food source for the inhabitants.

Mudbrew Masters – These are creators of fermented mushroom drinks. Depending on the kind of mushroom, this drink can have two effects: one is to help with deep relaxation, and the other is for heightened awareness.

Spore Traders – These are merchants who deal in rare and enchanted spores. They have medicinal and alchemical properties.

Pond-Fisher – These are fishers who catch, breed, and release rare amphibious critters into marsh pools that are carefully controlled.

Crafting & Artisanship

Reed Flute Makers – Just as the name suggests, they are carvers of musical instruments that produce soft and haunting melodies through the jungle air.

Shellsmiths – These are crafters who make armor and tools from the hardened shells of creatures within the forest.

Mudmask Artisans – They are artists who create ceremonial masks with colorful clay and enchanted swamp water.

Poison Ink Masters – These are scribes who write sacred texts and secret messages with ink made from non-lethal toxins that only the frolm can handle safely.

Biolume Dye Makers – These are extractors of glowing pigments which are from plants and fungi. They are used for body paint, ritual decorations, or even regular clothing.

Leadership & Diplomacy

Chief Elder – This is an elder who presides over a frolm Hamlet. He often leads councils on deciding if someone is guilty or innocent and what the punishment is if guilty.

Prophecy Interpreter – There are some frolm hamlets with a prophecy interpreter who is specialized in understanding prophecies that have been written down. They can also act as dream interpreters.

Elder Croakers – These are council members who help to resolve disputes and pass down wisdom and knowledge through traditional storytelling.

Trade Froggers – These are traveling merchants who barter exotic goods with neighboring races. They are often required to navigate through dangerous jungle paths.

Bog Emissaries – These are diplomats who are sent to speak with rival clans and outsider settlements.

Ceremonial Judges – These are respected figures who oversee rituals, trials, and punishment ceremonies. They usually serve the role of a chief elder if none are available.

Unique Jobs Based on Their Frog-Like Physiology

Leap-Couriers – These are high-speed messengers who jump across vast distances in order to deliver urgent messages.

Rain Harvesters – These are collectors of purified rainwater. This rainwater is used in potions and sacred ceremonies.

Echo Locators – These are scouts who use croaks and clicks to map out such things as tunnels, underwater ruins, and hidden caves.

Jungle Wall Climbers – These are specialists who use their sticky hands and feet to scale along cliffside temples and treetop villages.

Mud Camouflage Experts – These are guides who train warriors how to blend in with swamp terrain using natural pigments.

How These Jobs Shape Their Society

These jobs give them a deep connection to water – Many of these roles focus on preserving water, protecting sacred pools, and controlling rainfall.

They give them symbiosis with nature – Different from industrialized civilizations, the frolm depend on biodegradable materials and sustainable farming.

These jobs puts a emphasis on community – Many of the jobs involve group effort rather than individual effort, which reinforces communal Survival.

They keep cultural storytelling and rituals alive – Several roles include song, body paint, spiritual practices, and dance to honor their ancestors and the forest.